By Jonah Goldberg
Wednesday, July 05, 2017
First let me tardily congratulate Rich Lowry, Charlie
Cooke, Ian Tuttle, and Michael Brendan Dougherty for a really outstanding
episode of the Editors podcast. It was a joy to listen to, given how much all
four really love the American Founding and the debates around it. I learned a
lot from it. Just because the Fourth is behind us doesn’t mean it’s not worth
your time.
Here comes the But . . .
Around the 50-minute mark I was quite surprised to hear
Rich pretty much echo the often-caricatured version of Barack Obama’s American
exceptionalism.
Rich started by saying that America is a nation, not an
idea. He then went on to demonstrate the ways in which America is a nation
(it’s got borders and a people and a culture and the like).
That’s fine with me, I suppose. I concluded a while ago
that the “Nation vs. Idea” argument is poorly framed. If all you have to do is
cite borders, roads, and a post office to prove it’s not an idea, then what’s
the point?
Of course
America is a nation. I just don’t think it’s just any other nation. But Rich,
in his riff on America’s nation-ness, went on to say that pretty much every
country thinks it’s special and a “Shining City on a Hill.”
And that’s correct. Every country does have ideals. But
the specifics matter. It’s a bit like saying every human has talents — sure,
but some talents are greater than others. A great composer and a great
armpit-farter may be equally rich in their degree of talent, but not in the
quality or desirability of their talents. I am just a bit shocked that Rich
would so blithely reduce all national ideals to the same any three-for-a-dollar
bargain bin on sale to every nation on the U.N. roll call from Albania to
Zimbabwe. Are our ideals really no better than any other country’s? Are they
worth defending only because they are ours?
It seems The Editors are closer to this position than I
would have ever guessed. (And here we should note they do not speak with an
editorial voice for the magazine. I would very much like to see the internal
discussion of a National Review
editorial dedicated to the proposition, “American Ideals: ‘Meh.’”)
Rich asked an exit question: “If America had different
ideals, would you still love her?”
They all said yes.
Ian offered little more than an “absolutely” to Rich’s
question. Michael almost let down his guard to reveal he might like it better if we had different ideals. And Rich was of
course a full throated yes. He then went on to say that he’s coming around to
the idea that “there’s no such thing as a bad nation, only bad governments.”
Couldn’t someone ask, What ideals are we talking about
here? Forget dystopian scenarios from The
Man in the High Castle or The
Handmaid’s Tale. What if America just had the social and political
priorities of Sweden or Norway? It’s fine to say you’d still love her, but you
know what? It’s also fine to say you wouldn’t.
Charlie came closest to making this point. When asked if
he’d still love America if it had different ideals, he said “Yes, but less.” He
went on to explain that as an immigrant from a decent country, what appealed to
him about America most is its culture and its system of law. He conceded,
grudgingly, that if we changed our ideals we’d lose some of the stuff he loves.
But at the end of the day he’d still love America regardless of her ideals.
Going by the text alone, without knowing the gentlemen
involved, I would say this is all terribly wrongheaded. But I am more than
confident that all of my colleagues do, in fact, believe it depends on what
ideals we’re talking about. But they didn’t say it. Rather they nodded along (I
heard nodding!) as Rich argued for the “everybody’s special” school of
patriotism and nationalism.
Still, at least Charlie acknowledged that there is some
relationship between a nation’s ideals and our love for it (another word for
patriotism). He just couldn’t bring himself to say he could stop loving
America.
The rest of the gang didn’t even acknowledge that such a
relationship between ideas and love exists. If National Review had completely different editorial positions —
pro-choice, pro–gun control, etc. — would the cast of The Editors not be less
in the love with National Review? The
question answers itself.
Ideals say a lot about a person and nation. Change the
ideals, you change the person — and the nation. It sounds nice to say that
you’d still love the American people if America became a continental socialist
commune in the Republic of Berniestan. It sounds patriotic to say that American
culture is bigger and more important than the government. It’s also true. But
what shapes government and culture? Well, lots of things. But very near the top
of the list are ideals, broadly understood. Change the ideals and you change
the people (and vice versa).
Yet Rich’s uncontested formulation is that there are no
bad nations, only bad governments. How can that be? Wasn’t the whole idea, as
promulgated by the Founders, that the people should get the governments they
deserve? Don’t some bad governments reflect the shortcomings of their people?
I’m being a bit unfair, I know. But they had just spent
the better part of the hour celebrating the glory and genius of the Founding in
expert and loving detail. And then, when it came time to defend the exceptional
essence of American patriotism from the grubbiness of generic nationalism, the
only nod to the importance of the American idea came from the gun-nut immigrant
(I say that with love).
And this brings me back to this whole nation-versus-idea
thing.
Imagine one person tells you that his ideal form of
government would be to get rid of the Constitution and make Kim Kardashian
queen. You’d think that person is silly, probably even deranged. Now imagine
that 270 million Americans believed that and, having the necessary
supermajority to pull it off, voted away our Constitution. As the coronation of
Queen Kim, First of Her Name, unfolded on every channel, would you not change
your view of America, her culture, and her people? Might you not fall out of
love with America as it is?
My hunch is Rich et al. would still love America, but you
know what America they would love? The
America That Was. They might even join the resistance to the regime of
Queen Kim (I’m fairly certain Charlie would) in an effort to restore
self-government to America. And here’s the funny thing: They’d be fighting
against the American nation in the name of that great and glorious cause, the
American Idea. And that’s the crucial difference.
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