By Sam Harris
Sunday, July 27, 2014
[Note: This is a
verbatim transcript of a spoken podcast. However, I have added notes like this
one to clarify controversial points.—SH]
I was going to do a podcast on a series of questions, but
I got so many questions on the same topic that I think I’m just going to do a
single response here, and we’ll do an #AskMeAnything podcast next time.
The question I’ve now received in many forms goes
something like this: Why is it that you never criticize Israel? Why is it that
you never criticize Judaism? Why is it that you always take the side of the
Israelis over that of the Palestinians?
Now, this is an incredibly boring and depressing question
for a variety of reasons. The first, is that I have criticized both Israel and
Judaism. What seems to have upset many people is that I’ve kept some sense of
proportion. There are something like 15 million Jews on earth at this moment;
there are a hundred times as many Muslims.
I’ve debated rabbis who, when I have assumed that they believe in a God
that can hear our prayers, they stop me mid-sentence and say, “Why would you
think that I believe in a God who can hear prayers?” So there are
rabbis—conservative rabbis—who believe in a God so elastic as to exclude every
concrete claim about Him—and therefore, nearly every concrete demand upon human
behavior. And there are millions of Jews, literally millions among the few
million who exist, for whom Judaism is very important, and yet they are
atheists. They don’t believe in God at all. This is actually a position you can
hold in Judaism, but it’s a total non sequitur in Islam or Christianity.
So, when we’re talking about the consequences of
irrational beliefs based on scripture, the Jews are the least of the least
offenders. But I have said many critical things about Judaism. Let me remind
you that parts of Hebrew Bible—books like Leviticus and Exodus and
Deuteronomy—are the most repellent, the most sickeningly unethical documents to
be found in any religion. They’re worse than the Koran. They’re worse than any
part of the New Testament. But the truth is, most Jews recognize this and don’t
take these texts seriously. It’s simply a fact that most Jews and most Israelis
are not guided by scripture—and that’s a very good thing.
Of course, there are some who are. There are religious
extremists among Jews. Now, I consider these people to be truly dangerous, and
their religious beliefs are as divisive and as unwarranted as the beliefs of
devout Muslims. But there are far fewer such people.
For those of you who worry that I never say anything
critical about Israel: My position on
Israel is somewhat paradoxical. There are questions about which I’m genuinely
undecided. And there’s something in my position, I think, to offend everyone.
So, acknowledging how reckless it is to say anything on this topic, I’m
nevertheless going to think out loud about it for a few minutes.
I don’t think Israel should exist as a Jewish state. I
think it is obscene, irrational and unjustifiable to have a state organized
around a religion. So I don’t celebrate the idea that there’s a Jewish homeland
in the Middle East. I certainly don’t support any Jewish claims to real estate
based on the Bible. [Note: Read this paragraph again.]
Though I just said that I don’t think Israel should exist
as a Jewish state, the justification for such a state is rather easy to find.
We need look no further than the fact that the rest of the world has shown
itself eager to murder the Jews at almost every opportunity. So, if there were
going to be a state organized around protecting members of a single religion,
it certainly should be a Jewish state. Now, friends of Israel might consider
this a rather tepid defense, but it’s the strongest one I’ve got. I think the
idea of a religious state is ultimately untenable. [Note: It is worth
observing, however, that Israel isn’t “Jewish” in the sense that Saudi Arabia
and Pakistan are “Muslim.” As my friend Jerry Coyne points out, Israel is
actually less religious than the U.S., and it guarantees freedom of religion to
its citizens. Israel is not a theocracy, and one could easily argue that its
Jewish identity is more cultural than religious. However, if we ask why the
Jews wouldn’t move to British Columbia if offered a home there, we can see the
role that religion still plays in their thinking.]
Needless to say, in defending its territory as a Jewish
state, the Israeli government and Israelis themselves have had to do terrible
things. They have, as they are now, fought wars against the Palestinians that
have caused massive losses of innocent life. More civilians have been killed in
Gaza in the last few weeks than militants. That’s not a surprise because Gaza
is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. Occupying it, fighting
wars in it, is guaranteed to get woman and children and other noncombatants
killed. And there’s probably little question over the course of fighting
multiple wars that the Israelis have done things that amount to war crimes.
They have been brutalized by this process—that is, made brutal by it. But that
is largely the due to the character of their enemies. [Note: I was not giving Israel
a pass to commit war crimes. I was making a point about the realities of living
under the continuous threat of terrorism and of fighting multiple wars in a
confined space.]
Whatever terrible things the Israelis have done, it is
also true to say that they have used more restraint in their fighting against
the Palestinians than we—the Americans, or Western Europeans—have used in any
of our wars. They have endured more worldwide public scrutiny than any other
society has ever had to while defending itself against aggressors. The Israelis
simply are held to a different standard. And the condemnation leveled at them
by the rest of the world is completely out of proportion to what they have
actually done. [Note: I was not saying that because they are more careful than
we have been at our most careless, the Israelis are above criticism. War crimes
are war crimes.]
It is clear that Israel is losing the PR war and has been
for years now. One of the most galling
things for outside observers about the current war in Gaza is the
disproportionate loss of life on the Palestinian side. This doesn’t make a lot
of moral sense. Israel built bomb shelters to protect its citizens. The
Palestinians built tunnels through which they could carry out terror attacks
and kidnap Israelis. Should Israel be blamed for successfully protecting its
population in a defensive war? I don’t think so. [Note: I was not suggesting
that the deaths of Palestinian noncombatants are anything less than tragic. But
if retaliating against Hamas is bound to get innocents killed, and the Israelis
manage to protect their own civilians in the meantime, the loss of innocent
life on the Palestinian side is guaranteed to be disproportionate.]
But there is no way to look at the images coming out
Gaza—especially of infants and toddlers riddled by shrapnel—and think that this
is anything other than a monstrous evil. Insofar as the Israelis are the agents
of this evil, it seems impossible to support them. And there is no question
that the Palestinians have suffered terribly for decades under the occupation.
This is where most critics of Israel appear to be stuck. They see these images,
and they blame Israel for killing and maiming babies. They see the occupation,
and they blame Israel for making Gaza a prison camp. I would argue that this is
a kind of moral illusion, borne of a failure to look at the actual causes of
this conflict, as well as of a failure to understand the intentions of the
people on either side of it. [Note: I was not saying that the horror of slain
children is a moral illusion; nor was I minimizing the suffering of the
Palestinians under the occupation. I was claiming that Israel is not primarily
to blame for all this suffering.]
The truth is that there is an obvious, undeniable, and
hugely consequential moral difference between Israel and her enemies. The
Israelis are surrounded by people who have explicitly genocidal intentions
towards them. The charter of Hamas is explicitly genocidal. It looks forward to
a time, based on Koranic prophesy, when the earth itself will cry out for
Jewish blood, where the trees and the stones will say “O Muslim, there’s a Jew
hiding behind me. Come and kill him.” This is a political document. We are
talking about a government that was voted into power by a majority of
Palestinians. [Note: Yes, I know that not every Palestinian supports Hamas, but
enough do to have brought them to power. Hamas is not a fringe group.]
The discourse in the Muslim world about Jews is utterly
shocking. Not only is there Holocaust denial—there’s Holocaust denial that then
asserts that we will do it for real if given the chance. The only thing more
obnoxious than denying the Holocaust is to say that it should have happened; it
didn’t happen, but if we get the chance, we will accomplish it. There are
children’s shows in the Palestinian territories and elsewhere that teach
five-year-olds about the glories of martyrdom and about the necessity of
killing Jews.
And this gets to the heart of the moral difference
between Israel and her enemies. And this is something I discussed in The End of
Faith. To see this moral difference, you have to ask what each side would do if
they had the power to do it.
What would the Jews do to the Palestinians if they could
do anything they wanted? Well, we know the answer to that question, because
they can do more or less anything they want. The Israeli army could kill
everyone in Gaza tomorrow. So what does that mean? Well, it means that, when
they drop a bomb on a beach and kill four Palestinian children, as happened
last week, this is almost certainly an accident. They’re not targeting
children. They could target as many children as they want. Every time a
Palestinian child dies, Israel edges ever closer to becoming an international
pariah. So the Israelis take great pains not to kill children and other
noncombatants. [Note: The word “so” in
the previous sentence was regrettable and misleading. I didn’t mean to suggest
that safeguarding its reputation abroad would be the only (or even primary)
reason for Israel to avoid killing children. However, the point stands: Even if
you want to attribute the basest motives to Israel, it is clearly in her
self-interest not to kill Palestinian children.]
Now, is it possible that some Israeli soldiers go berserk
under pressure and wind up shooting into crowds of rock-throwing children? Of
course. You will always find some soldiers acting this way in the middle of a
war. But we know that this isn’t the general intent of Israel. We know the
Israelis do not want to kill non-combatants, because they could kill as many as
they want, and they’re not doing it.
What do we know of the Palestinians? What would the
Palestinians do to the Jews in Israel if the power imbalance were reversed?
Well, they have told us what they would do. For some reason, Israel’s critics
just don’t want to believe the worst about a group like Hamas, even when it
declares the worst of itself. We’ve already had a Holocaust and several other
genocides in the 20th century. People are capable of committing genocide. When
they tell us they intend to commit genocide, we should listen. There is every
reason to believe that the Palestinians would kill all the Jews in Israel if
they could. Would every Palestinian support genocide? Of course not. But vast
numbers of them—and of Muslims throughout the world—would. Needless to say, the
Palestinians in general, not just Hamas, have a history of targeting innocent
noncombatants in the most shocking ways possible. They’ve blown themselves up
on buses and in restaurants. They’ve massacred teenagers. They’ve murdered
Olympic athletes. They now shoot rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas.
And again, the charter of their government in Gaza explicitly tells us that
they want to annihilate the Jews—not just in Israel but everywhere. [Note:
Again, I realize that not all Palestinians support Hamas. Nor am I discounting
the degree to which the occupation, along with collateral damage suffered in
war, has fueled Palestinian rage. But Palestinian terrorism (and Muslim
anti-Semitism) is what has made peaceful coexistence thus far impossible.]
The truth is that everything you need to know about the
moral imbalance between Israel and her enemies can be understood on the topic
of human shields. Who uses human shields? Well, Hamas certainly does. They
shoot their rockets from residential neighborhoods, from beside schools, and
hospitals, and mosques. Muslims in other recent conflicts, in Iraq and
elsewhere, have also used human shields. They have laid their rifles on the
shoulders of their own children and shot from behind their bodies.
Consider the moral difference between using human shields
and being deterred by them. That is the difference we’re talking about. The
Israelis and other Western powers are deterred, however imperfectly, by the
Muslim use of human shields in these conflicts, as we should be. It is morally
abhorrent to kill noncombatants if you can avoid it. It’s certainly abhorrent
to shoot through the bodies of children to get at your adversary. But take a
moment to reflect on how contemptible this behavior is. And understand how
cynical it is. The Muslims are acting on the assumption—the knowledge, in
fact—that the infidels with whom they fight, the very people whom their
religion does nothing but vilify, will be deterred by their use of Muslim human
shields. They consider the Jews the spawn of apes and pigs—and yet they rely on
the fact that they don’t want to kill Muslim noncombatants. [Note: The term
“Muslims” in this paragraph means “Muslim combatants” of the sort that Western
forces have encountered in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. The term
“jihadists” would have been too narrow, but I was not suggesting that all
Muslims support the use of human shields or are anti-Semitic, at war with the
West, etc.]
Now imagine reversing the roles here. Imagine how
fatuous—indeed comical it would be—for the Israelis to attempt to use human
shields to deter the Palestinians. Some claim that they have already done this.
There are reports that Israeli soldiers have occasionally put Palestinian
civilians in front of them as they’ve advanced into dangerous areas. That’s not
the use of human shields we’re talking about. It’s egregious behavior. No doubt
it constitutes a war crime. But Imagine the Israelis holding up their own women
and children as human shields. Of course, that would be ridiculous. The Palestinians
are trying to kill everyone. Killing women and children is part of the plan.
Reversing the roles here produces a grotesque Monty Python skit.
If you’re going to talk about the conflict in the Middle
East, you have to acknowledge this difference. I don’t think there’s any
ethical disparity to be found anywhere that is more shocking or consequential
than this.
And the truth is, this isn’t even the worst that
jihadists do. Hamas is practically a moderate organization, compared to other
jihadist groups. There are Muslims who have blown themselves up in crowds of
children—again, Muslim children—just to get at the American soldiers who were
handing out candy to them. They have committed suicide bombings, only to send
another bomber to the hospital to await the casualities—where they then blow up
all the injured along with the doctors and nurses trying to save their lives.
Every day that you could read about an Israeli rocket
gone astray or Israeli soldiers beating up an innocent teenager, you could have
read about ISIS in Iraq crucifying people on the side of the road, Christians
and Muslims. Where is the outrage in the Muslim world and on the Left over
these crimes? Where are the demonstrations, 10,000 or 100,000 deep, in the
capitals of Europe against ISIS? If
Israel kills a dozen Palestinians by accident, the entire Muslim world is
inflamed. God forbid you burn a Koran, or write a novel vaguely critical of the
faith. And yet Muslims can destroy their own societies—and seek to destroy the
West—and you don’t hear a peep. [Note: Of course, I’m aware that many Muslims
condemn groups like ISIS. My point is that we don’t see massive protests
against global jihadism—even though it targets Muslims more than anyone
else—and we do see such protests over things like the Danish cartoons.]
So, it seems to me, that you have to side with Israel
here. You have one side which if it really could accomplish its aims would
simply live peacefully with its neighbors, and you have another side which is
seeking to implement a seventh century theocracy in the Holy Land. There’s no
peace to be found between those incompatible ideas. That doesn’t mean you can’t condemn specific
actions on the part of the Israelis. And, of course, acknowledging the moral
disparity between Israel and her enemies doesn’t give us any solution to the
problem of Israel’s existence in the Middle East. [Note: I was not suggesting
that Israel’s actions are above criticism or that their recent incursion into
Gaza was necessarily justified. Nor was I saying that the status quo, wherein
the Palestinians remain stateless, should be maintained. And I certainly wasn’t
expressing support for the building of settlements on contested land (as I made
clear below). By “siding with Israel,” I am simply recognizing that they are
not the primary aggressors in this conflict. They are, rather, responding to
aggression—and at a terrible cost.]
Again, granted, there’s some percentage of Jews who are
animated by their own religious hysteria and their own prophesies. Some are
awaiting the Messiah on contested land. Yes, these people are willing to
sacrifice the blood of their own children for the glory of God. But, for the
most part, they are not representative of the current state of Judaism or the
actions of the Israeli government. And it is how Israel deals with these
people—their own religious lunatics—that will determine whether they can truly
hold the moral high ground. And Israel can do a lot more than it has to
disempower them. It can cease to subsidize the delusions of the Ultra-Orthodox,
and it can stop building settlements on contested land. [Note: Read that again. And, yes, I
understand that not all settlers are Ultra-Orthodox.]
These incompatible religious attachments to this land
have made it impossible for Muslims and Jews to negotiate like rational human
beings, and they have made it impossible for them to live in peace. But the
onus is still more on the side of the Muslims here. Even on their worst day,
the Israelis act with greater care and compassion and self-criticism than
Muslim combatants have anywhere, ever.
And again, you have to ask yourself, what do these groups
want? What would they accomplish if they could accomplish anything? What would
the Israelis do if they could do what they want? They would live in peace with
their neighbors, if they had neighbors who would live in peace with them. They
would simply continue to build out their high tech sector and thrive. [Note:
Some might argue that they would do more than this—e.g. steal more Palestinian
land. But apart from the influence of Jewish extremism (which I condemn),
Israel’s continued appropriation of land has more than a little to do with her
security concerns. Absent Palestinian terrorism and Muslim anti-Semitism, we
could be talking about a “one-state solution,” and the settlements would be
moot.]
What do groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and even Hamas
want? They want to impose their religious views on the rest of humanity. They
want stifle every freedom that decent, educated, secular people care about.
This is not a trivial difference. And yet judging from the level of
condemnation that Israel now receives, you would think the difference ran the
other way.
This kind of confusion puts all of us in danger. This is
the great story of our time. For the rest of our lives, and the lives of our
children, we are going to be confronted by people who don’t want to live
peacefully in a secular, pluralistic world, because they are desperate to get
to Paradise, and they are willing to destroy the very possibility of human
happiness along the way. The truth is, we are all living in Israel. It’s just
that some of us haven’t realized it yet.
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